1
00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:00,720
foreign

2
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:18,000
everybody Welcome to a new episode of need\h
to know we're coming to you globally today\h\h

3
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,700
I'm Bryce Abel I'm up north of Los Angeles and\h
let me bring in my partner in crime here Ross\h\h

4
00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:28,740
coldhart who is somewhere south of Sydney how\h
you doing Roscoe g'day from Down Under how are\h\h

5
00:00:28,740 --> 00:00:34,260
you bros I see you've been gallivanting around\h
UFO conferences the last week it's been a busy\h\h

6
00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:41,040
last month for me but you're right yeah last week\h
I was at the international UFO Congress which was\h\h

7
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:49,680
in Mesa Arizona this week put on by Karen Broad\h
and Alejandro Rojas and lots well there a lot\h\h

8
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:56,160
of good information uh being exchanged and then I\h
also right after that uh did the Q a here in Los\h\h

9
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,740
Angeles at LA Live with James Fox over his new uh\h
moment of Contact movie so it's been a busy time\h\h

10
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:07,620
now you gave a speech I understand that the\h
Congress along with a number of other panelists\h\h

11
00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:15,420
on the issue of estimate of the situation\h
will 2023 Sizzle or fizzle what did you decide

12
00:01:23,820 --> 00:01:24,060
foreign

13
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,060
well you know you and I have talked about this\h
enough you probably already know all this uh in\h\h

14
00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:39,540
fact we talked about it in the last episode I\h
feel like uh we're gonna get some Sizzle here I\h\h

15
00:01:39,540 --> 00:01:45,300
just everything I hear from my sources and that\h
you seem to hear from your sources and uh that\h\h

16
00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:51,120
what the way people are talking seems to be that\h
there are some surprises ahead and I'm gonna if I\h\h

17
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:57,480
had to put my chips on the table and go all in on\h
either either one I'd go in on Sizzle over fizzle\h\h

18
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:04,500
well we do know my friend that as of late last\h
year the National Defense authorization Act\h\h

19
00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:12,540
of the United States Congress required that no\h
later than the 31st of October 2022 and annually\h\h

20
00:02:12,540 --> 00:02:18,840
for the next four years on the director shell in\h
consultation with the Secretary of Defense submit\h\h

21
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:25,140
to the approach appropriate Congressional\h
committee's report on unidentified aerial\h\h

22
00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:32,640
phenomena so the big question is what is that\h
report going to say you are really uh singing\h\h

23
00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:37,200
from my prayer book my friend because uh you\h
know I've been writing this trend since July\h\h

24
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,780
when they've when we first were talking about it\h
we got the calendar out and said October 31st is\h\h

25
00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:47,040
when they'll put it out because that's the last\h
one they had to put out they could put it out on\h\h

26
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:53,280
as late as June 25th 2021 and that's the day they\h
put it out so I think we can bet for October 31st\h\h

27
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:59,580
and uh I a couple of comments one that's Halloween\h
so that's kind kind of interesting a nice surprise\h\h

28
00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:04,980
there and maybe we'll get candy as well who knows\h
and then the the second part of that is of course\h\h

29
00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:12,240
that it is eight days before the U.S midterms so\h
if something actually major comes out in that uh\h\h

30
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:18,060
it could be uh it could be political it could get\h
into various debates I mean certainly some of the\h\h

31
00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:24,660
candidates the the October surprise well that's\h
what you wisely speculated that is the train I've\h\h

32
00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:30,060
been riding on my friend so you actually have\h
heard from a few people who uh you know because\h\h

33
00:03:30,060 --> 00:03:36,000
listen up until now whenever I start blathering\h
on about the October surprise I get told by people\h\h

34
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,520
hey settle down settle down you know maybe they'll\h
postpone it it might not be that big a deal and\h\h

35
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:47,640
Etc and I keep thinking well given where they\h
were in the last one from June 25th of 2021\h\h

36
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:55,140
the October 31st 2022 is going to have to advance\h
that debate somewhat and I keep thinking it could\h\h

37
00:03:55,140 --> 00:04:00,540
have something that could be kind of memorable in\h
it what are you hearing well Mike frankly a dead\h\h

38
00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:06,300
rat a flaccid dead rat would be better than what\h
was delivered in June 2021 I mean really it wasn't\h\h

39
00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:11,760
much but I I am actually hearing that things could\h
be interesting at the end of this month that there\h\h

40
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:17,820
may be something coming up but look I have to\h
admit I've been wavering between optimism and\h\h

41
00:04:17,820 --> 00:04:24,540
dark pessimism recently uh I'm I'm very worried\h
that because of the international situation the\h\h

42
00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:29,580
deteriorating economic situation there are\h
so many things coming on the agenda that are\h\h

43
00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:36,180
distracting our opinion leaders in Congress from\h
making a a decision about what to do as far as\h\h

44
00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:45,240
Congressional hearings go and I'm still I suppose\h
optimistic but I urge the belief that there are\h\h

45
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,700
forces that are incredibly powerful who are going\h
to try and yes there will be whistleblowers but\h\h

46
00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:55,320
they're going to try and keep it all in camera\h
in private Committee in the Congress and also\h\h

47
00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,600
as our friend Chris sharp as pointed out in an\h
article that he did for his Liberation times and\h\h

48
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:06,540
the Daily Mail on the last week or so um they've\h
already been hearings you know there are already\h\h

49
00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:12,660
Witnesses who've come forward and Chris is punting\h
in his article basically saying that he thinks uh\h\h

50
00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:18,480
from what he's hearing from his sources that\h
we are talking about Revelations of possible\h\h

51
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,280
crash retrievals and that there might in fact be\h
admissions being made if not already made about\h\h

52
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:30,360
crash retrievals and back engineering programs\h
so I'm optimistic cautiously optimistic for the\h\h

53
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,220
end of this month that drives with some of what\h
I'm hearing and I just want to differentiate when\h\h

54
00:05:35,220 --> 00:05:42,180
you said you were you thought the June 25th 2021\h
report that was released was not such a big deal\h\h

55
00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:50,520
um I I I want to make clear something there was\h
a May 17th of 2022 hearing that I for sure uh\h\h

56
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:58,380
agree with you was a complete flaccid piece of\h
wet lettuce and and not a good uh you know not\h\h

57
00:05:58,380 --> 00:06:04,500
a good indicator of where we're going but I really\h
do want to stand up for the June 25th 2021 report\h\h

58
00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:09,180
I've read it again recently and while you know\h
listen I would have liked it if they would have\h\h

59
00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:13,800
just said and we got a wreckage here and this\h
happened then and they didn't do that but again\h\h

60
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:21,660
that report did something that was Radical for\h
the U.S government they were real and it said\h\h

61
00:06:21,660 --> 00:06:26,520
we don't make them so I'll give you that that is\h
significant and more importantly it admitted that\h\h

62
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:34,500
it could not prosaically explain the vast majority\h
143 out of 144 events that they were looking at\h\h

63
00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:39,660
solving mainly military sightings so yeah I'll\h
give you that but I'm still I guess in the\h\h

64
00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:45,420
context of what you and I know about the history\h
of the phenomenon it does seem irksome that here\h\h

65
00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:51,720
we are 77 years on from the end of World War II\h
and we're still arguing about some pretty silly\h\h

66
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,100
things about whether or not the Congress should\h
be disclosing it so I'm I'm looking in terms of\h\h

67
00:06:56,100 --> 00:07:02,940
the last century frankly and what really is known\h
on the public record in official documents and in\h\h

68
00:07:02,940 --> 00:07:08,580
historical records and how there is this cognitive\h
dissonance between what we know from the history\h\h

69
00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:14,400
and and what's being admitted why has it taken\h
so long what do they know that they don't want\h\h

70
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,800
to reveal this is why we're such good friends\h
because I love anybody that can drop the the line\h\h

71
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:25,560
cognitive dissonance in a sentence and I love that\h
that because it is cognitive dissonance it's where\h\h

72
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:31,620
you know something to be true but you're actually\h
being told that it's not and and you just can't\h\h

73
00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:37,080
square that thing listen I want to just go back\h
for a moment to the iufoc where I spoke last week\h\h

74
00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,820
that you we started talking about there were a\h
lot of people there that were you know kind of\h\h

75
00:07:41,820 --> 00:07:47,220
interesting people Brian Bender from Politico\h
Alejandro Rojas Micah Hanks from the debrief\h\h

76
00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:56,340
uh Michael Masters um was there uh so was uh John\h
Ramirez Travis Walton David Marler James Fox Lynn\h\h

77
00:07:56,340 --> 00:08:01,320
kataya I mean a lot of interesting people and the\h
thing that I took away from it or two things one\h\h

78
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:07,740
attendance was way down and I think that's because\h
the um the pandemic has just gotten people out\h\h

79
00:08:07,740 --> 00:08:11,280
of the habit of getting out of the house so\h
it's going to take some rebuilding for them\h\h

80
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,260
they've had to be virtual the last two years but\h
I thought there was a lot of energy in the rooms\h\h

81
00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:22,380
that were there because people know that we're on\h
the fifth anniversary uh in two months of that New\h\h

82
00:08:22,380 --> 00:08:27,420
York Times times reporting that kind of you know\h
put us all out there and got us going so I found\h\h

83
00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:33,900
a lot of energy there and I I think that a lot of\h
people are are very similar to what you and I are\h\h

84
00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:41,580
doing we we know enough to feel that there is the\h
possibility of huge change radical change and at\h\h

85
00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:47,880
the same time we hear the Rumblings that there is\h
a pushback going on among the people who actually\h\h

86
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:55,080
are you know running uh the situation so yeah\h
it's uh it's a it's a tough choice for everybody\h\h

87
00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:02,220
but again there is reason for some optimism and\h
that's kind of what I want to put out here today\h\h

88
00:09:02,220 --> 00:09:07,680
there's another anniversary too it's not just\h
the fifth anniversary of the New York Times 2017\h\h

89
00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:14,400
Story coming up but it's also coming up to the\h
well actually it's the 20th anniversary of the\h\h

90
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:22,980
Admiral Wilson memo the ewd notes the purported\h
meeting between Admiral Tom Wilson of the DIA\h\h

91
00:09:22,980 --> 00:09:30,600
formerly of the DIA and Dr Eric Davis in a car\h
park outside EG and G's headquarters in Las Vegas\h\h

92
00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:36,840
um did it happen we're going to get more into that\h
a bit later aren't we Bryce it's like a spy novel\h\h

93
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:42,000
The Wilson Davis memo and we keep talking about\h
it and I have to say I was on a panel that was\h\h

94
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:49,020
moderated by Brian Bender of Politico and it\h
had Alejandro and Micah Hanks and myself and\h\h

95
00:09:49,020 --> 00:09:54,780
Michael Masters on and the most contentious part\h
of that panel was uh Brian asking everybody what\h\h

96
00:09:54,780 --> 00:10:01,620
they thought about the Wilson Davis memo Brian\h
uh thought it was fake uh Alejandro thought\h\h

97
00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:07,680
he was skeptical um so there there was some\h
difference of opinion on it I think there's\h\h

98
00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:12,960
a lot to it and that's why uh folks in in the next\h
segment we're going to be talking about it in fact\h\h

99
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,700
Ross you and I are going to do a dramatic interp\h
of it because it's been accused of reading like a\h\h

100
00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:22,680
screenplay sometimes so we feel like if it reads\h
like a screenplay maybe a couple of hack actors\h\h

101
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:28,140
like us should try to talk about it listen there's\h
just a little more housekeeping we should do\h\h

102
00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:33,840
um while we're you know while we're in our first\h
uh segment here just because there's so many\h\h

103
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:41,100
interesting things that are going on right now um\h
our mutual friend Ben Hansen has broken a story\h\h

104
00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:47,640
about the so-called racetrack UFOs and those are\h
UFOs that have been seen by numerous uh commercial\h\h

105
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:55,500
pilots in August of of this year and he's uh he's\h
done a deep dive into it the debrief just today\h\h

106
00:10:55,500 --> 00:11:01,500
did their own article talking about it and so uh\h
just hats off to Ben for some you know good solid\h\h

107
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,700
um investigative reporting we like to hear that\h
and can I can I also mention well before we go\h\h

108
00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:13,140
on from that one can I also mention it's very\h
significant what Ben's revealed because one\h\h

109
00:11:13,140 --> 00:11:18,060
of the things that I think his investigation\h
highlights is that there's whilst there's now\h\h

110
00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:24,000
a requirement that mandates that military Pilots\h
come forward with their sightings of uaps there's\h\h

111
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:29,880
no such equivalent with commercial pilots and so\h
what I thought was really heartening was that Ryan\h\h

112
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:37,320
Graves our mutual friend the ex fa-18 pilot who\h
we interviewed a few weeks ago um he's part of the\h\h

113
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:43,920
American Institute of Aeronautics and astronautics\h
and it has established three committees to study\h\h

114
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:50,760
uaps and how these occur incursions are affecting\h
pilot and passenger safety and to coordinate with\h\h

115
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,680
government agencies and international researchers\h
and so it's actually quite an exciting development\h\h

116
00:11:55,680 --> 00:12:03,660
that a reputable International body like the\h
aiaa which is a peak organizer for Aeronautics\h\h

117
00:12:03,660 --> 00:12:09,660
and astronautics is actually engaging and taking\h
this issue seriously and I I think it's only to\h\h

118
00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:16,620
be applauded and Ryan's working with Ravi\h
koparapu a planetary scientist at Nasa and\h\h

119
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,560
um they're damn serious about getting to the\h
bottom of this and collecting data which I think\h\h

120
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:30,660
is an absolutely key issue it it not only is it\h
key Ross but what I like about that story and uh\h\h

121
00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:36,480
some of the other organizations from the Galileo\h
project to the Enigma folks and to uh you know\h\h

122
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,620
just all of the things that we've been talking\h
about that world that's part of the reason for\h\h

123
00:12:40,620 --> 00:12:47,520
my optimism it is that we are no longer must\h
wait only for the government or any government\h\h

124
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:53,460
to tell us something about what's real we can do\h
a lot of This research for ourselves and so for\h\h

125
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:59,640
example these commercial pilots and the racetrack\h
UFO situation some of them are still worried about\h\h

126
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:06,000
stigma they're still worried that if they could\h
even find somebody to report this to that they\h\h

127
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:12,840
would be uh made fun of or possibly grounded and\h
you know I think it's 2022. it's a little late in\h\h

128
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:18,900
the game to be making our commercial pilots afraid\h
to tell people about things that they actually see\h\h

129
00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:23,460
with their own eyes and with their own equipment\h
so hopefully we're going to be able to put those\h\h

130
00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:28,740
kind of things to bed and now we would be we\h
would be remiss Bryce in not acknowledging our\h\h

131
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:35,820
friend and colleague James Fox's yeah fantastic\h
premiere of moment of contact which I think you\h\h

132
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:40,440
were the co-host of you actually interviewed James\h
on stage didn't you can you tell us a bit about\h\h

133
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:47,460
that thank you for bringing that up it's uh James\h
was not only at the iufoc but then as soon as I\h\h

134
00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:54,420
left that uh he had the world premiere of his\h
moment of contact film uh here in Los Angeles\h\h

135
00:13:54,420 --> 00:14:02,220
at the LA Live Regal Theater which is a lovely\h
impressive giant uh theater and it was really\h\h

136
00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:09,060
astonishing to watch his film which I had seen as\h
you had on our computers at home this one was you\h\h

137
00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:15,180
know gigantic I mean it was like watching it on\h
an IMAX really really stellar and um yeah I did\h\h

138
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:19,920
I introduced James who introduced his film and\h
then the film came on and then afterwards we did\h\h

139
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:27,060
uh the Q a and what I thought was fun about the Q\h
a is that a lot of times in Hollywood the studios\h\h

140
00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:31,620
when they have a movie come out we'll just have\h
you know somebody who maybe has seen the movie\h\h

141
00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:36,240
doesn't really know that much about it certainly\h
isn't there to pull anything really radical out\h\h

142
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:43,800
of anybody other than some stories from the Set uh\h
instead James got me and I've seen the film twice\h\h

143
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,300
and I know a few things about it and I thought\h
it was very interesting to sit down with them\h\h

144
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:53,160
and and pull apart some of the the interesting\h
things that are in it for those of you who don't\h\h

145
00:14:53,160 --> 00:15:00,840
know uh moment of contact is James's passion James\h
Fox's passion project it deals with the Virginia\h\h

146
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:12,660
uh UFO crash and retrieval with bodies and all of\h
that in Virginia Brazil in 1996. two years after\h\h

147
00:15:12,660 --> 00:15:22,020
the uh you know the case in uh is it Rwanda\h
is not Rwanda in Zimbabwe excuse me yeah so\h\h

148
00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:28,080
uh a fascinating case and and James literally\h
went to Brazil and talked to all the witnesses\h\h

149
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:35,700
and uh it literally is as the film suggests the\h
uh Roswell of Brazil so it was fascinating for\h\h

150
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:40,680
him to do it because it literally proves the\h
point of why you and I do this podcast okay\h\h

151
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,360
you and I are doing it you're in Australia and\h
I'm here in the United States and yeah we have\h\h

152
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,160
some technical issues from time to time because\h
we're trying to do a streaming podcast but the\h\h

153
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,020
the underlying reality of what we're trying to do\h
is to say this isn't a United States problem and\h\h

154
00:15:55,020 --> 00:16:01,440
the United States is not in charge of it uh the\h
the world is dealing with this issue right now\h\h

155
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:08,520
and uh that includes your country and it includes\h
Brazil and um anyway for people that would uh like\h\h

156
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,320
to know a little bit more about it's a good\h
watch it's not in theaters it's streaming\h\h

157
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:19,080
it's called moment of contact it's the James Fox\h
follow-up To His Brilliant film The phenomenon\h\h

158
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:27,300
now coming up next I'll need to know we\h
finally delve into the Intriguing mystery\h\h

159
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:36,900
of the so-called ewd notes the Admiral\h
Wilson memo we go Broadway can't wait\h\h

160
00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:57,720
welcome back to need to know now as Bryce\h
mentioned at the UFO Congress one of the\h\h

161
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,900
issues that came up in the panel that he was a\h
co-panelist on is the Admiral Wilson memo and for\h\h

162
00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:09,960
those of us who aren't aware of this document\h
it's an alleged record of a conversation that\h\h

163
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:18,000
took place between Dr Eric Davis a renowned and\h
well-respected Aerospace physicist who works for\h\h

164
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,940
the Aerospace Corporation now and Admiral Tom\h
Wilson who was at the time the immediate past\h\h

165
00:17:23,940 --> 00:17:28,920
former director of the defense intelligence\h
agency of the United States defense department\h\h

166
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:36,960
and in that memo there are recorded alleged\h
transcripts of the most extraordinary conversation\h\h

167
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:43,680
and the big issue that Bryce and I have been\h
discussing for many many moons is just how\h\h

168
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:49,260
real is that document because a lot of people of\h
course have suggested haven't they Bryce that this\h\h

169
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:54,720
is just a screenplay and I think even our friend\h
Brian Bender was skeptical at the conference you\h\h

170
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,760
were at last weekend suggesting that it you know\h
it really does it does read a little bit like a\h\h

171
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,620
screenplay you know before we get deeper into\h
it let me ask a couple of questions here that\h\h

172
00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:10,500
maybe you know the answer to and I honestly I in\h
preparation for this uh episode we're doing not\h\h

173
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:15,660
only did I read your fine book in plain sight and\h
read your chapter on this but I also read Richard\h\h

174
00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:22,020
Dolan's original uh article about it listen to him\h
talk about it in one of his podcasts and actually\h\h

175
00:18:22,020 --> 00:18:27,780
reread the memo so I feel all tuned up if you will\h
but there were two things that struck me and I I\h\h

176
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:36,780
really feel we should get get to them one is this\h
is these are the notes of uh Dr Eric Davis and\h\h

177
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:43,080
these are the most complete notes I've ever seen\h
and he obviously didn't take them in real time and\h\h

178
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:50,280
I know that my memory uh being what it is I could\h
never have done what he did here Ross do we know\h\h

179
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:57,540
if Eric Davis has a photographic memory because\h
friends of Erica have actually vouched for the\h\h

180
00:18:57,540 --> 00:19:02,460
fact that he does have the most extraordinary\h
memory but as you'll see in the course of our\h\h

181
00:19:02,460 --> 00:19:08,580
analysis by reading this document I suspect there\h
was a tape rolling I suspect that there was a\h\h

182
00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:14,520
digital recorder so let me roll back a little bit\h
let me just ask you one before you do though I\h\h

183
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,840
just want to ask this other question that I feel\h
you might know because you really researched it\h\h

184
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:24,480
what's the provenance of the chain of title\h
this thing was found in Apollo 14 astronaut\h\h

185
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:32,520
Edgar Mitchell's garage how did it get there okay\h
Edgar Mitchell was part of the National Institute\h\h

186
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,820
of Discovery Science which was established by\h
Robert Bigelow the Aerospace entrepreneur and\h\h

187
00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:45,300
he funded Bigelow funded uh Edgar to be part of\h
the scientific advisory panel for nids when it\h\h

188
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:51,600
was doing its investigations into uaps and frankly\h
the Paranormal that places like Skinwalker Ranch\h\h

189
00:19:52,260 --> 00:20:00,180
but it all goes back a lot earlier to a meeting\h
that took place in 1997 between Dr Stephen Greer\h\h

190
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:06,780
of the um uh what does he call himself these\h
days the disclosure project a controversial\h\h

191
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:12,480
figure in ufology but I will credit him that\h
he absolutely right that this meeting took\h\h

192
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:18,300
place so he turned up at the Pentagon and had\h
a meeting with the then deputy director of the\h\h

193
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:25,440
DIA Admiral Tom Wilson and attending that\h
meeting was a woman called Sherry adamiak\h\h

194
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,960
who was one of Edgar Mitchell's co-co colleagues\h
on the disclosure project uh Edgar Mitchell the\h\h

195
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,580
Apollo 14 astronaut who probably got them in\h
the door at the DIA because he's an astronaut\h\h

196
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:39,480
and people led astronauts in the door and\h
circumstances where they otherwise wouldn't\h\h

197
00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:47,340
um and uh there was also Commander Willard Miller\h
who was a former military colleague of um Admiral\h\h

198
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:54,180
Tom Wilson who facilitated the introduction to\h
the Admiral and in that meeting it was put by\h\h

199
00:20:54,180 --> 00:21:01,020
Greer to the Admiral that there were things being\h
concealed inside the Department of Defense that he\h\h

200
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:07,140
ought properly to be investigating and if we are\h
to believe the Admiral Wilson memo what happened\h\h

201
00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:13,080
as a result of that meeting was what is detailed\h
in the transcripts of this so-called Admiral\h\h

202
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:21,540
Wilson memo the ewd notes and they record what\h
Admiral Tom Wilson told allegedly Dr Eric Davis\h\h

203
00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:32,760
in 2002 August 2002 almost 20 years ago to the\h
day in a car park at E G and G the apocryphal\h\h

204
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:40,140
organization that does a lot of logistics for Area\h
51 and they allegedly sat in the back of a car\h\h

205
00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:48,420
in the EG and G car park in Las Vegas and\h
had this conversation and and by the way uh\h\h

206
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:55,380
you do an injustice to our anniversary it wasn't\h
August it was October 16th of oh sorry October\h\h

207
00:21:55,380 --> 00:22:01,080
you're absolutely right this literally is the 20th\h
anniversary week so uh Happy Anniversary Wilson\h\h

208
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:08,100
Davis memo and Ross and I we did not bake a cake\h
um because neither of us are good at baking cakes\h\h

209
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:17,820
but we did get our respective documents out and\h
highlight them now admittedly Ross uh last episode\h\h

210
00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:23,640
I said maybe we need to do a dramatic interp of\h
this thing and read it and foolishly we've decided\h\h

211
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:30,060
to do exactly that um not read the entire thing\h
folks but there it it has been accused of reading\h\h

212
00:22:30,060 --> 00:22:37,080
like a screenplay like like we said so um I guess\h
the luck of the draw is that I will be playing\h\h

213
00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:44,640
is so ridiculous I'll be playing Eric Davis uh\h
today and Ross you'll be playing Thomas Wilson\h\h

214
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:52,500
April Tom Wilson folks just uh if you've got\h
your own we're starting on page eight here\h\h

215
00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:01,320
um there was a lot of stuff that Ross uh you\h
know brought up earlier um that precedes it but\h\h

216
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:06,000
this is kind of the the tone of the thing and we\h
just thought you know it might be interesting to\h\h

217
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,400
be driving in a car or relaxing watching your\h
YouTube or whatever and just sort of hear it\h\h

218
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:16,680
read out loud and and ask yourself you know\h
for your own purposes does it sound authentic\h\h

219
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:25,200
so I'm going to start with Eric Davis on page\h
eight who says so what special access program\h\h

220
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:34,200
compartment did you find this in core secret\h
won't say code name again won't say core Secret\h\h

221
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,320
who was the project contractor or U.S\h
government agency that runs the program\h\h

222
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:49,620
an aerospace technology contractor one\h
of the top ones in the U.S who are secret\h\h

223
00:23:50,280 --> 00:24:00,240
can't tell a defense contractor yes the best of\h
them intelligence too in their corporate portfolio\h\h

224
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:11,160
give a hint sorry no what happened when you\h
found the contractor I made several calls end\h\h

225
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:18,720
of May 97 first to Paul Mike and Perry their\h
senior defense Department officials to confirm\h\h

226
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,500
I had the right contractor and program\h
manager to talk to did they confirm yeah\h\h

227
00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:34,260
then made three calls end of May 1997 to the\h
program manager one of them conference call with\h\h

228
00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:40,140
security director and corporate attorney confusion\h
on their part as to why I was looking for them and\h\h

229
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:46,320
what I wanted from them or wanted to know about\h
very testy tone from all of them what do you mean\h\h

230
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:55,140
they were agitated about my calling surprised\h
by call what you asked them yeah what was that\h\h

231
00:24:55,140 --> 00:25:03,540
what words I told I read their program record\h
in the uzdet the office of the under secretary\h\h

232
00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:09,540
for defense something or other in technology\h
special programs record group and wanted to\h\h

233
00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:16,500
know about their crashed UFO program what their\h
role in that was what they had also asked if\h\h

234
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:24,840
they knew of mj-12 or some such organization\h
code relating to Crashed recovered UFO craft\h\h

235
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:33,060
reaction on phone to that yes that's who I\h
talked to before I called them so I told them\h\h

236
00:25:33,060 --> 00:25:39,420
and they weren't happy with that answer you mean\h
about Perry and Paul Etc oh no I didn't tell him\h\h

237
00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:45,480
I talked to those guys who else do you talk to\h
there were the other program managers I called\h\h

238
00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:52,740
you you didn't mention that before I thought\h
I said something who were they three programs\h\h

239
00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:57,840
who said they weren't what who I was looking\h
for four programs that referred me back to\h\h

240
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:04,860
the present threesome why the latter because they\h
were part of it in different compartments placed\h\h

241
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:09,720
in different layers of the compartments pyramid\h
split up to do different things or parts of it\h\h

242
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,460
they're all they're all in same records group\h
but their connection to each other is not obvious\h\h

243
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:23,940
typical thing but unusual in records what then I\h
told threesome I wanted a formal briefing a tour\h\h

244
00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:30,660
Etc it was exploiting my regulatory Authority\h
as deputy director Dia assistant joint Chief of\h\h

245
00:26:30,660 --> 00:26:38,640
Staff J2 told them my not being briefed was\h
oversight they needed to correct I demanded

246
00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:46,500
and by the way I'm enjoying this so much Ross\h
because I've got the easy part all I have to\h\h

247
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:52,320
do is ask questions but um actually you have\h
still more from Thomas Wilson There sure they\h\h

248
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,660
needed to discuss this his demand so hung\h
up got called two days later and they said\h\h

249
00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:02,520
they don't want to talk on phone and arrange\h
for face-to-face meeting at their facility\h\h

250
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:11,460
did you go yes ten days later mid-june or\h
so flew out there met in their conference\h\h

251
00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:19,380
room in their secret vault three of them\h
show up the three guys with whom you had\h\h

252
00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:27,540
the telecon yes same three security director\h
NSA retired a CI counterintelligence expert\h\h

253
00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:34,980
program director corporate attorney called\h
themselves the watch committee or Gatekeepers\h\h

254
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:43,380
why why that phraser name I asked they said they\h
were formed out of necessity to protect themselves\h\h

255
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:48,540
after a near disaster in the past almost blew\h
their cover something to do with an agreement\h\h

256
00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:55,500
that was reached with a couple of Pentagon sesior\h
executive Services overseeing sap special access\h\h

257
00:27:55,500 --> 00:28:02,760
programs in those days we're vague about when\h
that was well what was this let me finish they\h\h

258
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:10,380
said years ago in past an audit investigation led\h
to them and it wasn't supposed to nearly outed a\h\h

259
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:15,960
battle a nasty back and forth between them and\h
the investigator and his Pentagon Chief ensued\h\h

260
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:22,500
like a tug of war for program transparency they\h
told me money was the issue their hiding out\h\h

261
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:28,560
became the other issue some kind of threat was\h
leveled to blow the lid off them so they backed\h\h

262
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:36,180
down and let the investigator in to complete his\h
job they work very hard to keep the program hidden\h\h

263
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:44,040
so what happened with that he was officially\h
briefed given a tour and shown their program\h\h

264
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:55,440
did they show them a craft or Hardware they said\h
was alien or from a UFO didn't say more about\h\h

265
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,060
that said that after that episode a formal\h
agreement was struck with Pentagon people\h\h

266
00:29:00,060 --> 00:29:06,180
the special Access program oversight committee\h
sapoc to prevent this in future didn't want to\h\h

267
00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:12,000
repeat special criteria were established in\h
agreement a special circumstance that must\h\h

268
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:19,140
meet rigorous access criteria set by contractor\h
committee nowhere no U.S government Personnel to\h\h

269
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:25,080
gain access unless they meet the criteria to be\h
administered by contractor committee the program\h\h

270
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:31,380
director the attorney the security director\h
irregardless of the tickets and position U.S\h\h

271
00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:39,360
government Personnel possessed literally their\h
way or the highway so what are the criteria I\h\h

272
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:46,200
asked for that and they refused to give an answer\h
I was mad implication is now to me they operate\h\h

273
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:53,100
without official oversight or any justification\h
politically dangerous place to be the threesome\h\h

274
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:58,740
we're concerned with whom I'd talk to at the\h
Pentagon or elsewhere by phone fax or email\h\h

275
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:04,620
they wanted an accounting of the conversations\h
concerned about new exposure the purpose of the\h\h

276
00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:13,140
meeting was to tell me this what that they\h
weren't going to let me in the door why they\h\h

277
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:20,460
said my tickets were all confirmed and valid but I\h
was not on the bigot list my tickets alone weren't\h\h

278
00:30:20,460 --> 00:30:29,460
enough I didn't meet the special criteria so\h
need to know authorization was not being granted\h\h

279
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:35,760
went back and forth with them over these points\h
primarily with security director and attorney

280
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,280
by the way just um I love the fact that need\h
to know makes an appearance in the documents\h\h

281
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,980
but enough of them to give us a mention wasn't it\h
on you go Thomas argued more they wouldn't accept\h\h

282
00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:54,840
my arguments that they fell under my statutory\h
oversight and Regulatory Authority as deputy\h\h

283
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:03,300
director Dia under purview for my right to have\h
need to know oversight audit justification issues\h\h

284
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:10,080
etc etc Regulatory and statutory Authority is\h
deputy director Dia wasn't relevant or pertinent\h\h

285
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,480
to the nature of their program then they pulled\h
out their bigot list to convince me otherwise\h\h

286
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:26,760
several pages long dated 1990 updated 1993. who\h
who was on it did you recognize any names that is\h\h

287
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:35,760
core Secret willing to say that most were program\h
employees names and titles job titles civilians\h\h

288
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:43,440
didn't recognize any military personnel could be\h
there any politicians no no White House names no\h\h

289
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:51,720
president no Congressional people no Congressional\h
staffers any of them in the Clinton or bush senior\h\h

290
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:58,800
administrations no but a handful of names were\h
Pentagon individuals I recognized a few from the\h\h

291
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:06,480
office of the under secretary defense what's a\h
in Australia do you know uh it's as you said it\h\h

292
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,520
I don't know what the a is but the t is technology\h
uh yeah something in technology one from another\h\h

293
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:19,440
department another at least NSC who was Pentagon\h
SES employee program managers said they were not\h\h

294
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:26,160
any weapons program not any intelligence program\h
not any special op or Logistics program doesn't\h\h

295
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:34,020
fit these categories I asked them what they\h
were then loud grow from program manager\h\h

296
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:43,560
security director and attorney say it's okay to\h
say it say what drum roll here boys this is big\h\h

297
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:49,200
I I I I I don't have my special effects but in\h
the final edit we can put that down here we go\h\h

298
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:58,680
they were a reverse engineering program\h
something recovered years ago in the past\h\h

299
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:06,180
technological Hardware was recovered so I\h
thought they meant recovered Soviet Chinese Etc\h\h

300
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:12,600
hardware and reverse engineering like a missile or\h
intelligence platform or aircraft actually came to\h\h

301
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,340
the meeting expecting to find a sensitive foreign\h
collection and reverse engineering operation\h\h

302
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:24,780
thought UFOs was used as a cover for that so I\h
said that and they said they weren't that either\h\h

303
00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:36,900
they had program manager talking a craft an intact\h
craft they believed could fly space air water\h\h

304
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:44,160
Dimensions was it from overseas or not they said\h
no could not be not possible why I asked where\h\h

305
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:51,240
did it come from program manager said they didn't\h
know where it was from they had some ideas on this\h\h

306
00:33:51,840 --> 00:34:03,240
it was technology that was not of this Earth not\h
made by man not made by human hands said they were\h\h

307
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,940
trying to understand and exploit technology their\h
program was going on for years and years with very\h\h

308
00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:16,500
slow progress agonizingly slow with little or no\h
success painful lack of collaboration to get help\h\h

309
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:22,560
from outside community of experts and Facilities\h
to assist effort must remain isolated and use\h\h

310
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:29,220
own facilities and cleared Personnel tough\h
environment to work about 400 to 800 bigot\h\h

311
00:34:29,220 --> 00:34:37,140
list count workers varying in number with funding\h
or Personnel changes Miller questions asked these\h\h

312
00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:43,800
are the questions from Commander Miller Roswell\h
craft bodies autopsies Holloman Air Force Base\h\h

313
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:50,280
landing mj-12 and leaked documents Lonnie Zamora\h
and bent Waters RAF bent Waters in England\h\h

314
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:59,520
this is his answer they were mum declined to\h
discuss these Tom Wilson I threatened to go to\h\h

315
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:06,540
sapoc to complain gain access to their program\h
they said go ahead do what you must I was angry\h\h

316
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:12,060
because they defied my authority to be read\h
in with good logical reason wouldn't budge\h\h

317
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:19,500
their tone was very testy tourists throughout the\h
conversation now I have a new line here but I just\h\h

318
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:25,380
have to stop us for just a second that was more\h
than a mouthful uh first of all nice rendition I\h\h

319
00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:32,040
wanted to just point out one thing to people um\h
there is one line in this uh document that has\h\h

320
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:40,140
been put in italics by uh Dr will uh Dr Davis\h
who apparently uh authored this and it is the\h\h

321
00:35:40,140 --> 00:35:48,780
line that Ross said earlier it was technology\h
that was not of this Earth not made by man not\h\h

322
00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:55,080
by human hands I mean there it is in black and\h
white in this document so basically the reason\h\h

323
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,900
people are fussing and fighting about whether this\h
document is real or not real is that if it's real\h\h

324
00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:07,740
well there you go there it is in black and white\h
uh if it's not real then you know whatever also uh\h\h

325
00:36:07,740 --> 00:36:15,060
because I'm a a kind of an Aficionado of the MJ 12\h
documents to actually see them mentioned in here\h\h

326
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:21,060
and not a disparaging way but isn't authentic way\h
really was quite a shock to me so with having said\h\h

327
00:36:21,060 --> 00:36:29,700
that let me get to the next line from Eric Davis\h
who said what was the outcome meeting broke up\h\h

328
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:36,360
I returned to Washington what about corso and by\h
that we're talking about Philip Corso the author\h\h

329
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:42,060
of The Day After Roswell which frankly I believe\h
had come out right around the time that 1997\h\h

330
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:50,040
briefing uh was going on in Washington so what\h
about Corso Greer talked about Corso on April 9th\h\h

331
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,620
which was that 1997 meeting Miller showed me the\h
book during two hour private conversation didn't\h\h

332
00:36:55,620 --> 00:37:01,200
have time to read it through didn't buy a copy\h
didn't bring Corso up at meeting but comparing\h\h

333
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:07,500
the Corso story to what I learned at meeting is\h
more than enough to believe Corso told truth about\h\h

334
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:18,840
seeing alien Hardware Etc did you complain to\h
sapoc or sap OC yes called the subgroup members\h\h

335
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,420
senior review group members to a meeting at\h
Pentagon told them what happened at meeting\h\h

336
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:31,620
they responded that they would sustain the\h
contractor on their access denial so I ended up\h\h

337
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:36,900
arguing with them a while broke up in 20 minutes\h
and they would meet me in two or three days\h\h

338
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:43,920
got the call two days later in the end of June and\h
met again with senior review group members when\h\h

339
00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:50,520
before last week of June 97. they told me\h
that they were sustaining the contractor\h\h

340
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,260
that I was to immediately drop the matter\h
and Let It Go forget about it as I didn't\h\h

341
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:59,580
have purview over their project\h
it didn't fall within my oversight\h\h

342
00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:04,380
Etc I became very angry started yelling\h
when I should have kept my mouth shut

343
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:13,140
Miller and Greer said you nearly got busted\h
close to that told Miller Senior review group\h\h

344
00:38:13,140 --> 00:38:19,440
chairman said if I didn't follow their suggestion\h
I would not see director Dia promotion get early\h\h

345
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:26,400
retirement lose one or two stars along the way\h
really incredibly angry upset over this livid\h\h

346
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,760
why such a big deal over this considering the\h
position of trust I have in the Pentagon I do have\h\h

347
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:39,360
relevant regulatory statutory authority over their\h
program that's my position is it because funding\h\h

348
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:47,040
comes from you or through you or the director\h
of the defense intelligence agency core secret\h\h

349
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:54,720
can't answer okay back to the bigot list can you\h
describe the type of people on it corporate types\h\h

350
00:38:54,720 --> 00:39:01,980
scientists and technicians Engineers scientists\h
managers Etc any military organizations that you\h\h

351
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:08,460
recognized none just oustat people and two on\h
the special Access program oversight committee\h\h

352
00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:15,840
one other Pentagon office in December 97 Paul\h
was out as the uzdat he left the government\h\h

353
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:24,960
so was uh Mike K replaced two by whom Jacques\h
counslow was the new used at started December 97\h\h

354
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:32,460
Mike K was replaced by Brigadier General M Ward\h
from the Air Force where Paul K and Mike K and\h\h

355
00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:38,940
Jacques ganzler and general Ward the ones on the\h
bigot list that you recognized won't answer that\h\h

356
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,780
talked to gansler in January\h
1998 about my June 97 meetings\h\h

357
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:56,700
he was briefed by someone surprised me what did\h
he say UFOs are real so-called alien abductions\h\h

358
00:39:56,700 --> 00:40:04,140
not real ganzler said this what else told to\h
drop the matter no more discussion about it

359
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,060
were you willing to talk to\h
Hell put off and kit green\h\h

360
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:15,720
uh I mean we just and then they went on and\h
discussed who they are and the remote viewing\h\h

361
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:21,600
program history uh Wilson was not familiar with\h
the names heard about the remote viewing program\h\h

362
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:28,500
in 90. uh maybe maybe not for Hal would think\h
about it no response on kit green prefers never\h\h

363
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:35,520
to talk to anyone else about this again risks\h
exposure better to stop talking cut it off here

364
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:43,920
what will you do with this now I I actually\h
think it's important at this moment uh Bryce\h\h

365
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,780
to make the point that I think this is\h
an implicit admission that he's asking\h\h

366
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:53,580
Eric Davis what will you do with this\h
it sounds to me like he's looking down\h\h

367
00:40:53,580 --> 00:40:57,840
at a recorder maybe a digital recorder\h
sitting on the car seat between them\h\h

368
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,600
or at least he's acknowledging that Eric's taking\h
notes of some kind but there's a reference what\h\h

369
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:09,900
will you do with this I mean you could I guess\h
make the argument that by this he he's like this\h\h

370
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:15,360
with this talk we've had uh but I do think the\h
recorder makes more sense particularly based on\h\h

371
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:22,560
how detailed this is anyway this is the last uh\h
thing that Eric Davis uh says in response to that\h\h

372
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,940
I'll keep it for private personal research\h
data collection to track down the story and\h\h

373
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:37,200
ascertain the signal noise in media and from\h
government sources will keep Mouse shut etc etc\h\h

374
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:42,840
I think we'll wrap it there to be honest otherwise\h
we get people bogged down in complications but I\h\h

375
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:49,500
just uh I suffice to say Brothers it does read\h
like a transcript either that or reads like a\h\h

376
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:55,740
screenplay so if it is a fabrication it's a very\h
very clever fabrication well here's the thing for\h\h

377
00:41:55,740 --> 00:42:01,560
people that make fake documents um you usually if\h
you're making a fake document you try to make it\h\h

378
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,660
look like a real document so if you were making\h
if not to get too convoluted here but if you were\h\h

379
00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:10,860
really just trying to make a fake document the\h
last thing you'd want anybody to say about your\h\h

380
00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:16,380
fake document is that it reads like a screenplay\h
right you'd want it you'd want it to be in a\h\h

381
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:22,380
different format than if you were looking for it\h
to be accepted this looks to me as I as I've heard\h\h

382
00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:29,520
us reading it and read it myself a couple of times\h
like somebody who is literally just had a really\h\h

383
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:35,100
impressive meeting and is desperately trying\h
to write it all down and I know because both\h\h

384
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:41,460
of us you know have have worked in the news and\h
investigation business I've spent my own time in\h\h

385
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:47,640
cars after I've talked to somebody and knowing how\h
quickly my brain is going to lose the specifics\h\h

386
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:53,640
and just stream it stream of consciousness got\h
everything down as fast as I could do it I'm\h\h

387
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,680
sure you have your own way but I mean if you\h
were in a situation where you had that long of\h\h

388
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,140
a conversation with someone what would you have\h
done afterwards I would have definitely recorded\h\h

389
00:43:04,140 --> 00:43:11,640
it with it yeah with Tom Wilson's permission\h
but I I assume there's an implicit admission\h\h

390
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,740
there that there's something going on that he's\h
referring to what will you do with that and in\h\h

391
00:43:16,740 --> 00:43:21,420
my book I I speculate that he's pointing down\h
at a digital recorder but it is speculation we\h\h

392
00:43:21,420 --> 00:43:28,020
just don't know other friends of Eric have told me\h
that Eric has a phenomenal memory but um we should\h\h

393
00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:33,420
emphasize when I I communicated with Admiral Tom\h
Wilson for my research and he's adamant that this\h\h

394
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:39,720
meeting with Eric Davis never took place that no\h
such admissions were made and that the memo is a\h\h

395
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:45,540
hoax that it's a fake but uh the reason why\h
this is significant is because of course we\h\h

396
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:51,900
know that Congress is about to hold hearings and\h
if there are going to be people coming forward\h\h

397
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,840
one of the people or two of the people that should\h
be being called maybe Commander Willard Miller\h\h

398
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:03,600
as well should be being called but certainly\h
Commander Willard Miller Eric Davis and Admiral\h\h

399
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:09,780
Tom Wilson should all be deposed and asked did\h
this meeting take place what do you know and let's\h\h

400
00:44:09,780 --> 00:44:15,900
face it Mike Gallagher the congressman during\h
the May 17th meeting provided the the hearings\h\h

401
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:21,720
on on Capitol Hill provided I thought some of the\h
most dramatic stuff by simply demanding that the\h\h

402
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:28,440
Wilson uh Davis memo that we've just read out\h
loud be put into the Congressional Record so if\h\h

403
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:36,000
it's you know if it's important it wouldn't be\h
really hard to to find out if this has reality\h\h

404
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,920
to it or not you really do just drag the people in\h
and you put them under oath and you ask them these\h\h

405
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:46,980
questions now I want to emphasize I'm skeptical of\h
the Wilson memo and I have to be because neither\h\h

406
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:53,640
Eric Davis nor Tom Wilson will publicly vouch\h
for its ferocity as a record of true events\h\h

407
00:44:53,640 --> 00:45:00,900
but at the same time there are a whole series of\h
circumstantial reasons to take the memo seriously\h\h

408
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:06,240
and that's my position my position is that we\h
can't rely on anything the memo says it doesn't\h\h

409
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:12,240
prove a thing right now but it should be being\h
investigated and that's what's heartening about\h\h

410
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,280
representative Mike Gallagher's decision to put\h
the document on the public record in the Congress\h\h

411
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,680
because it Flags an intention that the Congress is\h
going to take a closer interest in this document\h\h

412
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,680
I also temper my understanding of the document\h
with the fact that I have spoken to people who\h\h

413
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:36,420
purport to be knowledgeable about what they refer\h
to as the program and they assert that there is a\h\h

414
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:41,280
back engineering a reverse engineering program\h
going on in the US government which is actually\h\h

415
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:48,300
conducted in part mainly in private Aerospace so\h
it's at least consistent with the drift of the\h\h

416
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:55,380
Admiral Wilson memo that at some stage the whole\h
program was moved out of government probably out\h\h

417
00:45:55,380 --> 00:46:00,720
of the Department of energy and into a private\h
Aerospace company where it's remained for much of\h\h

418
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:07,920
the last few decades if it's a fake there would be\h
things within it that I mean there would usually\h\h

419
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:14,280
be things within it that were of questionable\h
efficacy so my question to you is as I look\h\h

420
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:20,520
through it I didn't see anything that I thought\h
was wrong that was a mistake that was clearly uh\h\h

421
00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:27,360
invalid did you no I didn't and that's my gripe\h
with some of the mj12 documents as some of them\h\h

422
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:33,480
are very obviously forgeries you know they've used\h
uh signatures from former presidential documents\h\h

423
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:39,060
that are acknowledged as real documents so I I\h
have an issue frankly with the mj-12 documents\h\h

424
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:44,460
you wouldn't hang a mangy dog as we would say\h
in Australia now there's a whole collection of\h\h

425
00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:49,500
mj-12 documents and this is not earlier what the\h
earlier ones are more interesting but yeah the\h\h

426
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:55,260
Eisenhower briefing document that was written\h
supposedly in November of 1952 as Eisenhower\h\h

427
00:46:55,260 --> 00:47:00,060
had been elected and was being briefed into a\h
program he probably already knew things about\h\h

428
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:05,040
that one reads pretty good to me but again\h
there are things that people can take issue\h\h

429
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:10,080
I'm not sure what you would take issue with in\h
this thing factually maybe stylistically and\h\h

430
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:15,600
again just because I I just I think now it's\h
more important than ever tell our listeners\h\h

431
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:23,880
and viewers one more time how this document\h
became public how it ended up in an astronauts\h\h

432
00:47:24,540 --> 00:47:32,280
garage after his death okay the document was\h
given to Edgar Mitchell the lunar module pilot\h\h

433
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,820
on the Apollo 14 Mission because Edgar was on\h
the science advisory panel for the National\h\h

434
00:47:38,820 --> 00:47:44,040
Institute of Discovery Science which was funded\h
by Robert Bigelow the Aerospace entrepreneur\h\h

435
00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:50,760
and as part of a bundle of documents that came\h
out of Edgar Mitchell's estate after he died\h\h

436
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:56,160
I I'm very very clear in my mind because I've\h
spoken to the person who facilitated the release\h\h

437
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:01,560
of those documents from Edgar Mitchell's estate\h
who was a very close friend of Edgar Mitchell I\h\h

438
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:07,140
am absolutely certain that the provenance of this\h
document is very very clear that Edgar received it\h\h

439
00:48:07,140 --> 00:48:14,340
probably soon after the 2002 meeting allegedly\h
between Eric Davis and Admiral Tom Wilson and\h\h

440
00:48:14,340 --> 00:48:19,140
that whether it records an accurate version of a\h
conversation between Eric Davis and Admiral Tom\h\h

441
00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:25,560
Wilson or not it was almost certainly brought into\h
the fact the files the paperwork of Edgar Mitchell\h\h

442
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:31,740
shortly thereafter faxed probably by Hal put off\h
from the National Institute of Discovery Science\h\h

443
00:48:32,340 --> 00:48:38,400
to Edgar Mitchell and that Edgar Mitchell informed\h
himself about the contents of that document and\h\h

444
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,440
indeed referred to this meeting in numerous\h
interviews that took place over the following\h\h

445
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:51,000
years and there is indeed mild corroboration\h
of certain aspects of the conversation that\h\h

446
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:57,300
took place between Eric Davis and Admiral Tom\h
Wilson which lead me to be more convinced than\h\h

447
00:48:57,300 --> 00:49:03,540
not that the conversation did take place and let\h
me hasten to add as well Bryce that nobody should\h\h

448
00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:10,260
reflect adversely on Admiral Tom Wilson if he is\h
lying about this because as a security official\h\h

449
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:16,140
who's responsible for preserving America's\h
most important National Secrets if you are\h\h

450
00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:21,840
the holder of a security oath and you're banned\h
by your security oath and if this is a waived\h\h

451
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:28,620
unacknowledged special access program of some kind\h
as we suspect that it is you are legally obliged\h\h

452
00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:36,120
to lie correct and and I I don't think anything\h
less of them in fact if anything as I first read\h\h

453
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:44,760
this and as I heard it read just now by you I I\h
felt an emotional response to him if this is the\h\h

454
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:50,340
real thing and this really describes what he went\h
through let's all pause for a moment and think\h\h

455
00:49:50,340 --> 00:49:57,420
about that here is the guy who's in charge of the\h
defense intelligence agency is basically J2 he's\h\h

456
00:49:57,420 --> 00:50:03,300
like the uh he's at the top of the Joint Chiefs\h
of Singapore yeah he's the intelligence briefer\h\h

457
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:09,360
for The Joint Chiefs okay who should be able to\h
make the argument that you know if you're working\h\h

458
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:16,620
on something I'd like to know about it and who's\h
received the warm embrace of the US government to\h\h

459
00:50:16,620 --> 00:50:23,460
be able to keep a secret it would be Tom Wilson\h
and so his frustration in in the reading and\h\h

460
00:50:23,460 --> 00:50:29,700
and even watching the use of Eric Davis with the\h
triple exclamation marks on some of these things\h\h

461
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:37,380
um you just really feel how frustrating that would\h
be imagine this is your job you are supposed to be\h\h

462
00:50:37,380 --> 00:50:43,980
helping brief people about the security challenges\h
the United States of America is up against and\h\h

463
00:50:43,980 --> 00:50:49,440
there is a program you're aware of that they're\h
confirming and they won't read you into it and\h\h

464
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,160
you're more importantly more importantly my\h
friend I think the thing that leaps out to\h\h

465
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:58,680
me as a lawyer in that document is that the the\h
organization that is meant to be the Sovereign\h\h

466
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,900
of America your Congress which is meant to be\h
government of the people for the People by the\h\h

467
00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:10,800
people it's not briefed into this neither is why\h
Congress is pissed and same with the president the\h\h

468
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,840
president is not in on I mean for years uh we've\h
been playing the game on these UFO podcasts where\h\h

469
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,980
people go well what do you think this President\h
knew or didn't know and it's been an uh you\h\h

470
00:51:19,980 --> 00:51:25,140
know item to be bandied about in fact I wrote an\h
entire television series if you will about what\h\h

471
00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:30,480
a president knew or didn't know when I did Dark\h
Skies for NBC so uh the idea that the president\h\h

472
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:37,380
doesn't get told is not surprising to me but to\h
see it there in black and white is uh is unnerving\h\h

473
00:51:37,380 --> 00:51:44,100
if uh if that's the right word because uh it\h
does mean that there is another Power structure\h\h

474
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:49,140
uh that is dealing with this besides\h
the power structure that's supposed to\h\h

475
00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:55,800
be dealing with these things as laid out in our\h
constitution so it's uh more importantly you can\h\h

476
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,780
see why the Congress would be worried about\h
accountability yep I mean let's assume it's\h\h

477
00:52:00,780 --> 00:52:05,340
true let's assume that there is a secret back\h
engineering reverse engineering program going\h\h

478
00:52:05,340 --> 00:52:10,800
on inside the US government I can understand\h
especially during the Cold War the instinct\h\h

479
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:18,840
to keep it secret the need to try to preserve the\h
secrecy of what after all is a momentous admission\h\h

480
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:24,240
that the United States is in possession of\h
non-human technology advanced technology\h\h

481
00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:29,220
but it's the issue that it hasn't been\h
brought to the attention of the Congress\h\h

482
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:34,980
that's the key issue and if ever if ever\h
there was a national security issue that\h\h

483
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:41,220
ought properly to be known by the Congress this is\h
it you know and here's your Moment of Zen folks if\h\h

484
00:52:41,220 --> 00:52:47,640
you're listening or you're watching right now um\h
let's all take just a second and consider this\h\h

485
00:52:48,780 --> 00:52:55,560
um if there is Crash wreckage it goes back to\h
at least 1947 and according to some cases maybe\h\h

486
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:03,480
even further if it's real and it existed and if\h
the phenomenon is authentic uh and exists and\h\h

487
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:09,480
is some kind of non-human intelligence that's\h
interacting with us if those things are true\h\h

488
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:19,500
we've gone eight decades nearly now eight decades\h
where a basic fact of how the universe operates\h\h

489
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:27,660
has not been opened up and discussed with us and\h
the US government itself now seems to have become\h\h

490
00:53:27,660 --> 00:53:33,780
blinded as the public has been so just to pick up\h
on what you were saying Ross I've always thought\h\h

491
00:53:33,780 --> 00:53:41,280
that probably if I'm a believer that Roswell is\h
a is true an authentic event uh more or less as\h\h

492
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:49,440
it's described and that I'm quite uh certain that\h
when Roswell happened it was a military operation\h\h

493
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,180
I mean obviously we just won World War II and\h
the military gets it and who's the president\h\h

494
00:53:54,180 --> 00:54:00,000
gonna uh appoint to look into it military and\h
National Security people but it seems clear\h\h

495
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:06,360
if this memo is true that what has happened\h
over the years is the government itself has\h\h

496
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:13,200
offshored a great deal of the research and the\h
work on this topic to private Enterprise mostly\h\h

497
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:19,980
Aerospace firms uh ins here in Southern California\h
where I am and that's a shocker because what that\h\h

498
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:27,540
means with compartmentation that happens with\h
security uh we've been over eight decades blinding\h\h

499
00:54:27,540 --> 00:54:34,320
our officials more and more and more to the point\h
where yeah you've now got Senators like gillibrand\h\h

500
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:41,280
and Rubio waking up and going wait a second what's\h
going on here and who can blame them I mean who\h\h

501
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:47,820
can really blame them well at the very least it\h
poses a question that needs to be answered and we\h\h

502
00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:52,620
shouldn't be frightened of asking the question\h
even if it turns out that the memo is a hoax\h\h

503
00:54:52,620 --> 00:54:58,260
at least it can be resolved I don't think it is\h
a hoax that's my gut instinct we'd better think\h\h

504
00:54:58,260 --> 00:55:02,280
about wrapping up mate because we're getting\h
pretty close to a full hour here and I know\h\h

505
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,540
our audience have got better things to do than\h
to listen to us prattling on about a memo that\h\h

506
00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:12,900
may or may not be real but uh yeah I mean I think\h
it's fair to say that we may get answers to the\h\h

507
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:20,880
conundrum The Mystery of the Admiral Wilson memo\h
possibly as early as maybe early 2023. man that\h\h

508
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:26,640
would be just shocking listen um I enjoyed doing\h
that I enjoyed reading that I enjoyed hearing you\h\h

509
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:36,180
uh read it a secret but nobody does core Secrets\h
as good as you and by the way I freaking love\h\h

510
00:55:36,180 --> 00:55:40,440
that I'm going to put that on it's going to be a\h
movie One Day Bryce called core secrets that's the\h\h

511
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,360
title of my next movie but let's end it with this\h
let's tell people what course Secrets is supposed\h\h

512
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:53,340
to mean what what is a core secret the biggest\h
secrets of all the secrets so secret that if\h\h

513
00:55:53,340 --> 00:56:01,260
you reveal them they irrevocably compromise United\h
States national security and it we can understand\h\h

514
00:56:01,260 --> 00:56:06,300
why a UFO reality would be a core secret\h
what do you think other core Secrets might be\h\h

515
00:56:07,020 --> 00:56:12,540
oh I can imagine maybe the ingredients to how\h
to make it into making make a nuclear bomb and\h\h

516
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:18,960
and let's just also say Bryce maybe also what\h
do they really know about the JFK assassination\h\h

517
00:56:19,860 --> 00:56:25,620
well okay now I know we're wrapping up so I'm\h
gonna have to we're gonna have to bring that\h\h

518
00:56:25,620 --> 00:56:31,380
up because that one gets me going I even wrote\h
a book about it so yeah we'll be back anyway\h\h

519
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:36,720
it's been fun uh I've enjoyed this we'll\h
continue to follow this and uh let's just\h\h

520
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:43,740
hope that as we get into 2023 uh there'll be more\h
answers than there are questions coming forward\h\h